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Hello and welcome to THE PRIDE OF YORKSHIRE.

This forum was set up on the 5th of September 2009 in order to give Yorkshire football fans a place to come and interact with fellow fans of all 10 league clubs in our county.

We operate a controlled environment, with each team having their own forum and moderator, to ensure everyone has equal rights. The main reason this forum was set up, was to allow its members the freedom to express themselves without the restraints some other 'multi-club' forums adopt.

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Diouf & Piq

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LEEDSLAD/03/01/2010
Silent Majority
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Post by Silent Majority Wed 11 Apr - 4:38:51

You're not reading what I've written have you.

These are Football League Rules that govern what agents and clubs can do, those are facts. End of.

Your opinion is just that.

Edit.... that's the last word from me, I won't be back this way arguing with idiots like you.

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Post by donnyroversfc Wed 11 Apr - 4:50:18

Silent Majority wrote:You're not reading what I've written have you.

These are Football League Rules that govern what agents and clubs can do, those are facts. End of.

Your opinion is just that.

Edit.... that's the last word from me, I won't be back this way arguing with idiots like you.

Football governing rules didn't stop him from trying to profit last time. Maybe he should have signed Benjani for us, he could have been a better player than Sharp like Bamogo is.

You must drink so much Horlicks on a night to help you sleep, what with you agreeing with McKay's involvement in the club. No morals.

Some fans aswell as the club, need to take a good long look at themselves rearding their opinions on McKay's involvement.

I may be an idiot but atleast i'm not lacking in the morals department like you and some others are.

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Post by hoolahoop Wed 11 Apr - 5:40:31

Enough Donnyrovers and please remove that daft signature i.e. ''HATE McKAY '' will you please .

We all need to move on and grow up , that sort of abuse whether you feel it's merited or not (definitely unfounded/unsubstantiated) has no place on a decent forum.........wtf has got into you ?
Every time I read a post of yours it is signed in a ridiculous way. ''HATE'' is a pathetic word especially when you can't substantiate your arguments against him, he was asked for help and he provided it to a weak manager and Board of Directors that allowed these crazy events to take place. Surely some of your disdain and barbed comments should at least have been aimed at those that gave him and DS to operate within such wide parameters.

Can we talk about the future now please , what's done is done. Cool
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Post by Irish Contingent Wed 11 Apr - 6:45:54

donnyroversfc wrote:

At the time of signing Ilunga McKay said if he got him a move in January then he'd be negotiating WITH WEST HAM his percentage of the transfer money.

he'll receive cuts from Ilunga, Chimbonda and Diouf when they all find a new club. Obviously they are without a club (excluding us) so it'll be from any signing on fee's the players gets from their new club (and be honest, if the go to China or Russia it'll be a lot). Easy money for McKay.

Make your mind up. DRFC are not owners of said players and therefore can't stop them joining another club. Now you say the PLAYERS will pay McKay out of any signing on fee, so how do DRFC lose out there. These players were part of an "Experiment" they are / were paid a fraction of their true value salary wise from DRFC coffers, so in terms of cash its money well spent. What has McKay got from the deal .....£100 a week. Anyway, get used to this "experiment" cos it and McKay are not going away anytime soon.
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Post by Upwind Wed 11 Apr - 18:24:35

[quote="Irish Contingent"]

Make your mind up. DRFC are not owners of said players and therefore can't stop them joining another club. Now you say the PLAYERS will pay McKay out of any signing on fee, so how do DRFC lose out there. These players were part of an "Experiment" they are / were paid a fraction of their true value salary wise from DRFC coffers, so in terms of cash its money well spent. What has McKay got from the deal .....£100 a week. Anyway, get used to this "experiment" cos it and McKay are not going away anytime soon.[/quote]

I thought that JR was to review the 'experiment' at the end of the season and that if (now when) we were relegated that it would be shelved - did I hear wrong?

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Post by Irish Contingent Wed 11 Apr - 18:41:46

Upwind.

With the loss of KM2 and children, do you think Ryan can do anything other than keep the "Experiment" going. John simply cant do it alone. Any way, the "Experiment" is no different from the "Loan System" we have had for years, its just cheaper.
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Post by VixDRFC Wed 11 Apr - 19:16:02

Well god help us if the experiment continues into League 1 - I don't want to imagine the players it will attract, certainly no Diouf (maybe a good thing) Piquionne etc

And there is a difference between the loan system that most clubs use and this. With domestic loans you can only name 5 in any match - there is no limit to international loans as long as they're signed in the transfer window so in theory you could name a full squad

But a lot of the "experimentl" players aren't loans - they're ours! On 1-3 month contracts which is certainly different to most other clubs and lacks stability
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Post by Upwind Wed 11 Apr - 19:23:30

Irish Contingent wrote:Upwind.

With the loss of KM2 and children, do you think Ryan can do anything other than keep the "Experiment" going. John simply cant do it alone. Any way, the "Experiment" is no different from the "Loan System" we have had for years, its just cheaper.

Personally, without getting involved in the handbag swinging about the good or bad of WM, I do think JR could continue without the 'experiment'. I seem to recall that he managed on his own last time we were in League One - before DW & TB joined the party near the end of 2006. However, prior to that, JR did a pretty good job unaided.

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Post by Irish Contingent Wed 11 Apr - 19:41:16

Yes he did Upwind, but wage bill then 1/4 of what it is now. I do of course realise in the next couple of years the wage bill will be reduced, JR said 8 to 4 million reduction needed, thats 8695 £20 tickets needed for each game. As season tickets are costing less than that JR would need 10K ( minimum ) home gates every game to just pay wages. Add in all the rest that needs funding, then there is not a chance Ryan can do it alone. I hope he finds some other financial backers to ease the burden.
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Post by yorkie64red Wed 11 Apr - 20:08:22

Irish Contingent wrote:Yes he did Upwind, but wage bill then 1/4 of what it is now. I do of course realise in the next couple of years the wage bill will be reduced, JR said 8 to 4 million reduction needed, thats 8695 £20 tickets needed for each game. As season tickets are costing less than that JR would need 10K ( minimum ) home gates every game to just pay wages. Add in all the rest that needs funding, then there is not a chance Ryan can do it alone. I hope he finds some other financial backers to ease the burden.



JR has got some very difficult discisions to make about which direction the club goes..i don't envy him...
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Post by Upwind Wed 11 Apr - 20:14:39

I’m afraid that I don’t have access to the accounts, so I can’t contest your figures. I’d agree with you that it wouldn't be easy - but other clubs in the lower leagues manage to operate on lower budgets and we have done so previously – without the assistance of WM - so we know what the requirements are. Having identified what needs to change, we will need to alter the budget to fit our new financial plan and manage our incomings/outgoings accordingly – as a successful businessman, JR has been doing this year on year for some time.

We do have other income streams (Cup competitions/programmes/shirts etc) and we will get some finance from the Football League also, so whilst adjusting our finances downwards, we should be able to build a plan based on our projected resources – and JR managed to do this successfully (and unaided) before our promotion to the Championship. You never know, financial backers may come forward also - afterall not many saw DW and TB's investment...


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Post by Irish Contingent Wed 11 Apr - 21:03:20

Yes there are other income streams, but, things like FA cup ( 1st round ) only mean ( if tie won ) 30K, lesser amount for Carling cup, and less still for JPT. Shirt / Lottery / all other sundrie sales i fear wont amount to the rent paid for KMS. I think ( as with premiership ) there is a parachute payment for this coming season ( though its only 1 payment ), after that DRFC will be worse off to the tune of about 3 - 4 million ( the likelyhood is that if any of the teams relegated from premiership at end of last season are promoted, DRFC will miss out on their share of what would have been parachute payment for that club). whatever way it falls DRFC will suddenly be a few million worse off. The problem with cutting cloth according to means is that if total income is 4 million and a squad of 30 players are maintained ( no account of Youth team taken , or Manegerial staff, or coaches), just players, then the average wage cannot exceed 2.5K a week. My best guess is that other than the 2K loans, no first team player at DRFC is on that little.
It appears at first glance as if Ryan will need to "Plait sawdust" to maintain that level of pay.
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Post by Silent Majority Wed 11 Apr - 21:18:13

No parachute payments from Championship to Lg1 I'm afraid. The share of FL payments for Lg1 clubs is £325k, plus the sharing out of promoted clubs money has ceased. Expect revenue to drop by £4m, which could be sustainable based on new salary levels.

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Post by Irish Contingent Wed 11 Apr - 21:25:11

Thats even worse than i anticipated then SM.
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Post by yorkie64red Wed 11 Apr - 21:29:44

Irish Contingent wrote:Thats even worse than i anticipated then SM.



Probably essential that the club takes over the running of the stadium and that people use the bars and facilities to give the club extra income..i for one have started to use the keepmoat bar again on a matchday and that is mainly down to the reduced prices..long may that continue..every little helps..
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Post by Upwind Wed 11 Apr - 21:41:14

Irish, I totally agree with you that it won't be easy - but not insurmountable. Other teams (from our region) are in worse financial positions and as long as we approach the situation with our eyes wide open and plan accordingly then I think we would be alright. Now, that may mean selling/releasing some of our 'gems' or re-negotiating existing contracts (where able) but it is not something that we should be running scared from – it has happened to bigger clubs than our own, and I am confident that with JR at the helm we could re-emerge stronger.

What I do know is that if the WM 'master plan' continues it will only serve to further disillusion the remaining players and it is likely to drain the already despondent support, who have had to endure the debacle and farce that has taken place since the WM approach came to pass.

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Post by Irish Contingent Wed 11 Apr - 22:18:52

I am not sure the "DRFC" players are disillusioned with the "Plan", one i know fairly well said he has enjoyed playing with some of the Imports, but thats only 1 player out of lots.
I suppose there may be a divided dressing room to a certain extent, but, i feel sure if there is JR would have abandoned the "Plan" months back if that was the case.
I could see the merit in the "Plan", and its continuity ( if JR decides it will ) wont bother me a lot. Of course my preference would be contractually tied players at DRFC, not 3 month loans, or short term contracts. However i am not manager or chairman.
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Post by Upwind Wed 11 Apr - 23:21:28

Irish Contingent wrote:I am not sure the "DRFC" players are disillusioned with the "Plan", one i know fairly well said he has enjoyed playing with some of the Imports, but thats only 1 player out of lots.
I suppose there may be a divided dressing room to a certain extent, but, i feel sure if there is JR would have abandoned the "Plan" months back if that was the case.
I could see the merit in the "Plan", and its continuity ( if JR decides it will ) wont bother me a lot. Of course my preference would be contractually tied players at DRFC, not 3 month loans, or short term contracts. However i am not manager or chairman.

I also have no evidence that the players don't actually agree with the Willie Plan; however, it's unlikely that they are going to be to happy with the club signing up a short-term loanee to take their place in the side - it must feel like their abilities are being questioned. I'd agree though that if the Willie Plan is the only solution - then that's the path we follow - there's not a lot that either you or I are going to do about it.

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Post by Irish Contingent Thu 12 Apr - 0:15:19

I'm not sure how many signings were made of these "Short term" players to replace existing ones, therefore upsetting them. As a generalisation only one i can think of was Chimbonda, who obviously replaced O'Connor. Beye brought in when Friend and Martis both injured. EHD i suppose replaced someone, but lets be right, like or loath him, he is the best player at DRFC .Strikers in have realistically been since BS left ( or at least since it became obvious he was going ) Two of which have made fleeting appearences and signed short term contracts, the rest loans. The 3 Keepers were necessary, so would not say they brought in to replace anyone in particular. Ilunga brought in to fill in for Spurr, Goulon for stock. and 3 signed who until recent times just trained and maybe sat on bench, which doesn't leave that many for "Contracted" DRFC players to get in a tizzy about
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Post by Upwind Thu 12 Apr - 1:56:20

Not going to argue with your summary - although I haven't the time to ponder all the possibilities. I wasn't so much suggesting that there was a plan to bring in someone as a direct replacement for a contracted player; more that any player who was on the books pre-Willie, may feel a little aggrieved that they weren't in the team and that a 'loaned in' player was. I'm thinking of the likes O'Connor, Oster, Hayter and Woods etc. You could also question, to a certain extent, the loaning out of Mussy and Wilson and the returning of loanees Lalkovic and Mason back to their respective clubs - if these was purely financial then I guess we can't argue - although, as you quite rightly point out, our finances are certainly going to take a bigger hit now.

Admittedly we've had injuries and some additions were needed, however, we seem to have gone overboard a bit and some of the loanees we've signed up have failed to feature much - if at all. Personally, I feel that a more settled squad may have helped our predicament and that if there are new faces on the training field every other day, it isn't going to instil a great team spirit or help gel the team together.



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Post by Irish Contingent Thu 12 Apr - 2:31:02

Whilst i agree virtually with all you said above, the existing players and new SOD additions this season had shown they were going to struggle. Even allowing for the "Horrendous" injury list of last season, it was shown that DRFC did not have the depth of talent to cope. A lot of folk said but for injuries in Brighton match, day 1 of season, that DRFC would not be in todays situation, but, there was always going to be a point during season where BS, JH, and others were going to be missing through injury. Last season, New year onward, when all were saying "its down to injuries", 24 games were played, the majority of first team squad played in half or more of those ( see my compilation below ).

Last seasons Players New year to end of season.( 24. Games )
Sullivan 10 42% of possible games
O’Connor 14 58%
Martis 8 33%
Hird 15 62%
Joe Mills 14 58%
Copps 18 75%
Stock 16 67%
Wilson 12 50%
Oster 24 100%
Hayter 16 67%
Sharp 12 50%
Lockwood 4 17%
Shiels 7 29%
Kilgallon 7 29%
Chambers 6 25%
Gary Woods 14 58%
Friend 20 83%
Keegan 10 41%
Mason 3 12%
Brooker 1 4%
Thomas 9 37%
Moussa 12 50%
Euell 8 33%
Souza 1 4%
Gilette 10 41%
Dumbaya 5 21%

So i am not sure at all that its down to Injuries or Loan Players this season, nor was it last. Maybe both managers should share the blame, maybe Ryan and KM2 should, maybe its a collective thing all round.
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Post by Upwind Thu 12 Apr - 18:11:52

You've got too much time on your hands Irish... Smile

We could end up going in circles; however, I will concede that the blame is not attributable to any one thing. I do think that the injuries contributed somewhat - but that is by no means the only issue. I also believe that the contracted players will have felt some resentment to the band of foreign 'stars' that arrived in the wake of WM. Maybe next term we will revert to a more normal and mundane existence - I for one wouldn't be too upset.

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Post by hoolahoop Fri 13 Apr - 8:41:57

It's high time that the clubs outside the Premiership started fighting for a bigger share of the sky monies before the game strangles itself completely.

Having no parachute payments at all is causing the demise of the national game.......time it was sorted. Mad
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Post by Silent Majority Fri 13 Apr - 11:16:15

hoolahoop wrote:It's high time that the clubs outside the Premiership started fighting for a bigger share of the sky monies before the game strangles itself completely.

Having no parachute payments at all is causing the demise of the national game.......time it was sorted. Mad

No chance Hoola! I was in a meeting with Mr Scudamore and the Premier League a couple of weeks ago, to say they are annoyed with people wanting a bigger share of their money would be an understatement of massive proportion.

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Post by hoolahoop Sat 14 Apr - 3:55:30

Silent Majority wrote:

No chance Hoola! I was in a meeting with Mr Scudamore and the Premier League a couple of weeks ago, to say they are annoyed with people wanting a bigger share of their money would be an understatement of massive proportion.

Really are they so unaware of the bigger picture, do they not realise that the majority of monies they have kept for themselves has caused not only a huge increase in transfer fees but also players wage demands ? Quite clearly they have no interest in the ''national'' game whatsoever and the damage ''their'' money has caused to many many clubs throughout the League.

These are folk who obviously have no interest in our national game whatsoever, sitting in their cosy lifeboats whilst all around them are drowning for the lack of a lifejacket in an icy sea (I knew I could get a Titanic anology in somewhere this week. Wink )

Quite frankly the attitude of the Premier League and Scudamore disgusts me and should disgust every decent supporter of our national game. Mad Mad Mad
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