Why DRFC have gone to "Willy"

Championship clubs will be allowed only to spend what they earn from the 2012-13 season while sides in League One and Two will not be permitted to spend more than 55% of their turnover on player wages.

Clubs who transgress are likely to be handed a transfer ban as a first sanction with possible points deductions for major offenders.


So i think all on here should agree, its the only way to go on gates DRFC get.

No benevolent director payments to keep club stable. 1 million in, 1 out is whats to be allowed as of next season. No share issues by the look of things, certainly no loan of money.

Its not the 'only way to go' at all!

If it really was the only way then we wouldnt be the only club doing it!

So, tell me then, how do you know other clubs are not doing the same, just not so publicised. And tell me what other way is there oracle.

You may not like McKay, you may not like whats happening, but its a £ in £ out game as of next season, no hand outs. Tell me another way of getting quality in at DRFC. YOU CANT!.

Ok then, i DOUBT very much that clubs are doing the same as us, because as JR as said himself, too many loans (short term players) cant work!

Another way? Easy, by bringing in good young prospects from lower league sides or reserve sides. We need to be focussing on unearthing more gems like Scunny did with Sharp, Hooper, Keogh etc. and like we did with Mills,Hird and well before that, Coppinger! Young kids need heroes to look upto on the pitch (afterall they are our future support) thats not gunna happen if we bring in an high turnover of players on short term deals.

The club have had a lot of publicity OFF the pitch due to this new strategy but ON the pitch we are still exactly in the same position we were BEFORE it, Bottom of the league, with less games left!

If were relegated (be honest, thats looking more and more likely everyday) then the McKay plan as been 0% succesful, and if by some miracle we stay up, it'll be 50% successful, considering that its a 2 year deal that involves staying up this, and promotion/play-offs next!

So, the afore mentioned players, Sharp, Keogh, Hooper, Mills, Hird, Coppinger, and whoever else you can mention, what are they going to be paid. 2K a week, not when they can earn more elsewhere, dont be so bloody stupid. The players noted were on MORE than that with previous clubs, as would any talented player ( or prospectively talented player be ).

By your way of thinking DRFC should recruit "Potential" at as cheap a cost as possible, cant happen as of end of this season.

6 million income split between say 30 players is less than 4K a week.
The 6 million also has to pay coaches, Medical people, anyone employed by DRFC. Also the ground Rent / Lease, so suddenly 4K becomes 3 becomes 2, yes DRFC will pick up talent for that, i think not.

BUT they can pick up these short term loans / deals.

So there you have it.

So by your reckoning then, no player in league 2 is quality? because if they were they wouldnt be playing there because they'd not be on much money. Give over.

30 players would be a huge amount to have in a squad, a smaller squad (supplemented by a few loans and youth players) is a much better way to go about things, cost cutting wise than going by the way we are now.

Shrewd investment in good young prospects is whats needed, not every Tom, Dick and Harry turning up from abroad, on the promise of brighter things a few months down the line.

Ive used Scunthorpe as one example (and they have had pretty good success on getting players in to say they get probably 50% less fans through their gates). Peterborough is another one i could use, They bought players from league 2/ Conference and having kept them a few years (and gaining promotions in the process) managed to sell them on for more money, then used some of that money to do the exact same thing. Its working for them, and its worked for us before.

IT WORKED FOR BLACKPOOL WHEN THEY WENT UP

donnyroversfc wrote:So by your reckoning then, no player in league 2 is quality? because if they were they wouldnt be playing there because they'd not be on much money. Give over.

30 players would be a huge amount to have in a squad, a smaller squad (supplemented by a few loans and youth players) is a much better way to go about things, cost cutting wise than going by the way we are now.

Shrewd investment in good young prospects is whats needed, not every Tom, Dick and Harry turning up from abroad, on the promise of brighter things a few months down the line.

Ive used Scunthorpe as one example (and they have had pretty good success on getting players in to say they get probably 50% less fans through their gates). Peterborough is another one i could use, They bought players from league 2/ Conference and having kept them a few years (and gaining promotions in the process) managed to sell them on for more money, then used some of that money to do the exact same thing. Its working for them, and its worked for us before.

Yes, by my reckoning ( and next season legislation ) you will see i am correct. It worked really well for Scunthorpe and Peterbro, where are they, Scunthorpe looking at relegation again and Peterbro been like a whores drawers, and how do you know those clubs are not close to administration right now.

And tell me where it has worked for DRFC, not in my lifetime.

Irish Contingent wrote:

Yes, by my reckoning ( and next season legislation ) you will see i am correct. It worked really well for Scunthorpe and Peterbro, where are they, Scunthorpe looking at relegation again and Peterbro been like a whores drawers, and how do you know those clubs are not close to administration right now.

And tell me where it has worked for DRFC, not in my lifetime.

The 'legislation' is crap, it still doesn't stop us from buying CHEAP young players from lower leagues, it DID work for Scunthorpe, until their fantastic manager left and it went wrong, and it IS working for Peterborough (above us in the league with some exciting prospects in their squad). Ofcourse, neither of us know if they are close to Admin or not, but the fact that neither club have spoken out about financial trouble (scunthorpe made a profit last year too i think) then id say they aren't close at all!

We got to the league we are in right now buy investing wisely in both the PLAYERS and MANAGER.

The club needs to make more money, so investing in young players that we can make a profit on is the best way to do that, tell me just how exactly will we make a profit on the players we are signing currently? The answer is we wont!

We'll lose merchandise revenue, because no one with half a brain cell would get any of our new signings names on the back of their shirt when they are only on contracted to us for a few month.

Name me a DRFC player who we invested wisely in.
Name me any exciting players in Peterbro squad.
Why was SOD a wise investment.
Granted DRFCwont as it appears currently make money from any transfer of the "Short term" players. Tell me one of the "Long Term" ones DRFC will make money on ( Taking into account original cost to DRFC and salaries paid ).
There does seem to be a few shirts with Diouf on the back, or are my eyes that bad. And its not the name on the back that makes the money, its the shirt.
Of course the legislation will stop DRFC buying from lower leagues to a certain extent, as you cant spend what you dont have, and certainly DRFC wont have 2 million championship payment next year if they are relegated, and that was a certainty under your ideal world.

Irish Contingent wrote:Name me a DRFC player who we invested wisely in.
Name me any exciting players in Peterbro squad.
Why was SOD a wise investment.
Granted DRFCwont as it appears currently make money from any transfer of the "Short term" players. Tell me one of the "Long Term" ones DRFC will make money on ( Taking into account original cost to DRFC and salaries paid ).
There does seem to be a few shirts with Diouf on the back, or are my eyes that bad. And its not the name on the back that makes the money, its the shirt.
Of course the legislation will stop DRFC buying from lower leagues to a certain extent, as you cant spend what you dont have, and certainly DRFC wont have 2 million championship payment next year if they are relegated, and that was a certainty under your ideal world.

Name me a DRFC player who we invested wisely in.
Matt Mills, Richie Wellens, Michael McIndoe. All players that we made a profit on.
Billy Sharp, Paul Heffernan, Gregg Blundell. All scored plenty of goals for us that either A) got us promotion and B) kept us in the championship. All of those, and more were VERY wise investments, and all apart from Billy cost us very little.

Name me any exciting players in Peterbro squad.
Emile Sinclair, 24yo. Signed from Macclesfield in league 2 and has scored 7 goals so far. That is more than any of our current players have scored so far this season.
George Boyd, 26yo. Signed from Stevenage when they were in the conference. Him and CMS practically took them to where they are now.
Paul Taylor, 24yo. Started his career at Northwich Victoria, has scored 8 goals for Peterboro so far this season, again, more than any player currently in our squad.
Joe Lewis, 24yo. Although they paid a decent 400k for him, hes an highly rated goalkeeper who has been their a few years and played a massive part in getting them where they are. Premiership clubs have been after him.

Then their is the players they sold, Ryan Bennett to norwich (they signed him from Grimsby who were league 2) and Craig Mckail-Smith, bought from the conference and sold on for more than £3million.

Why was SOD a wise investment.
Is that a serious question? Won us the Johnstones paint trophy, got us promoted to the Championship.

We are still looking like certainties for relegation under McKays way too.

Matt Mills cost 300K, with his Salary an accumulative million, how much did DRFC get, a million. McIndoe cost 50K, with his salary accumulative of around 500K, he left for 125K SO LOSS of 375K, Richie wellans cost little but salary would have been say 300K, how much we get a million so profit of 500K. Billy Sharp cost 1.1 million, Salary a further million , sold him for 2, small loss. Made a loss on Blundell and Heffernan.
Cant argue with what you say about peterbro players except Joe Lewis ( who will leave on a free at season end).
Yes SOD got lucky, in the 2 games that counted, other than that his record is no better or worse than Dean Saunders or Dave Penney before him.
Maybe we are looking like relegation, but i think DRFC will end season above Peterbro,Coventry,Milwall, Bristol City and maybe Portsmouth, and will have done it cheaper than any club in Championship, because of JR foresight and Willy McKays help.

Irish Contingent wrote:Matt Mills cost 300K, with his Salary an accumulative million, how much did DRFC get, a million. McIndoe cost 50K, with his salary accumulative of around 500K, he left for 125K SO LOSS of 375K, Richie wellans cost little but salary would have been say 300K, how much we get a million so profit of 500K. Billy Sharp cost 1.1 million, Salary a further million , sold him for 2, small loss. Made a loss on Blundell and Heffernan.
Cant argue with what you say about peterbro players except Joe Lewis ( who will leave on a free at season end).
Yes SOD got lucky, in the 2 games that counted, other than that his record is no better or worse than Dean Saunders or Dave Penney before him.
Maybe we are looking like relegation, but i think DRFC will end season above Peterbro,Coventry,Milwall, Bristol City and maybe Portsmouth, and will have done it cheaper than any club in Championship, because of JR foresight and Willy McKays help.

Since when were weekly salaries counted into the cost of a player. Very strange accountancy to prove a stance Irish ?

Why Hoola, is it not a cost to DRFC, If a player joins for a million ( say ), and is on 3K a week for 2 years, is that not a total cost to DRFC of 1.312 million to DRFC. If he is then sold for 1.5 million is the profit on said player not 188K. Just same as buying a house on mortgage, you may pay 100k for it, but in real terms end up paying much more by the time its yours, so profit if same house is sold for 200K is not 100K.

Ha Ha, I think I know you Irish and I would not argue with what you're telling us here. Very true and very informative I thought.
Thanks for sharing your theory.
Good luck!

Of Course you know me John. Hows life in Dublin. Hope to be back someday.

Irish Contingent wrote:Matt Mills cost 300K, with his Salary an accumulative million, how much did DRFC get, a million. McIndoe cost 50K, with his salary accumulative of around 500K, he left for 125K SO LOSS of 375K, Richie wellans cost little but salary would have been say 300K, how much we get a million so profit of 500K. Billy Sharp cost 1.1 million, Salary a further million , sold him for 2, small loss. Made a loss on Blundell and Heffernan.
Cant argue with what you say about peterbro players except Joe Lewis ( who will leave on a free at season end).
Yes SOD got lucky, in the 2 games that counted, other than that his record is no better or worse than Dean Saunders or Dave Penney before him.
Maybe we are looking like relegation, but i think DRFC will end season above Peterbro,Coventry,Milwall, Bristol City and maybe Portsmouth, and will have done it cheaper than any club in Championship, because of JR foresight and Willy McKays help.

I agree in counting players salarys in the cost, BUT id argue that Blundells goals, which got us promotion to league 1 FAR outweigh the cost we spent on him. Same with Mcindoes goals and assists which got us to a quarter final in carling cup aswell as promotions. Without Heffernans goals we'd have not even made it out of league 1, nevermind stay in the championship (his goals kept us up in the first season). Who can forget Coppingers performance againts Southend? Plus his assists hes had since being here, easily outpay what hes cost us. Mills and Wellens were both vital in getting us promotion and keeping us up so aswell as making profit on them financialy, we also gained with success on the pitch!

SO'D got lucky? That is very disrespectful! He succesfully managed us to a win in a cup final at the Millenium Stadium and won us a promotion via a win at Wembley! How many managers have an 100% record at both stadiums? He got us punching above our weight, on a limited budget and gave us an identity as a great footballing side! Opposition fans were envious of us!

Unless you know what salaries each player was on how can you possibly say the contributions made far outweigh the cost of the player. You see your statements are at least contradictory. Blundell and Mcindoe never saw the light of day under SOD ( which is essentially what we are talking about, SOD's Reign ), Heffernan was limited use to SOD. Which manager barely recognised Paul Green, until it was too late, then allowed him to go on a free.
Its common knowledge neither Richie Wellans or Billy Sharp were SOD signings, others had the foresight not SOD. So essentially SOD had the foresight to sign 1 player of any significance. All the rest were "Loan" players, here short term, same as the players you so much dislike at DRFC now.
Yes SOD did get lucky, in so many ways, if thats being disrespectful, then so be it. In my opinion he was lucky to get the job in the first place, very lucky Ryan was chairman, because during his tenure there were at least 4 occassions any other chairman and board would have sent him packing. Lucky in 2 games that really mattered. Then his luck ran out. He is not a good manager . Never was and never will be.

Irish Contingent wrote:Unless you know what salaries each player was on how can you possibly say the contributions made far outweigh the cost of the player. You see your statements are at least contradictory. Blundell and Mcindoe never saw the light of day under SOD ( which is essentially what we are talking about, SOD's Reign ), Heffernan was limited use to SOD. Which manager barely recognised Paul Green, until it was too late, then allowed him to go on a free.
Its common knowledge neither Richie Wellans or Billy Sharp were SOD signings, others had the foresight not SOD. So essentially SOD had the foresight to sign 1 player of any significance. All the rest were "Loan" players, here short term, same as the players you so much dislike at DRFC now.
Yes SOD did get lucky, in so many ways, if thats being disrespectful, then so be it. In my opinion he was lucky to get the job in the first place, very lucky Ryan was chairman, because during his tenure there were at least 4 occassions any other chairman and board would have sent him packing. Lucky in 2 games that really mattered. Then his luck ran out. He is not a good manager . Never was and never will be.

I'd say TV money from the Cup runs, and money from promotions outweighed the cost of those players. We're not talking just about SOD'S reign as such, more the strategy of buying up promosing prospects from lower leagues for future gain.

As for the bit in bold, absolutely laughable!! You're quite happy to laud Willie McKay, who hasn't done anything for us, yet dismiss the talent and achievements and slag off a manager that got us big success! SO'D didn't get lucky at all, he got us playing good and successful football, if anything i'd say towards the end of his reign he was desperately unlucky. We we're in a pretty good position last season before the injuries struck!

Here we go again, round in circles, Tell me which "PROMOSING" prospects were signed from lower league for future gain.
Where did i "Laud" Mckay, i said i know why its happening, and can see why it just could work, dont think thats "Lauding" it.
Anyway, back track a little. How many "Short Term" players did SOD have at season start, how many "Loans" too. Why do you consider such a difference between SOD and Saunders doing same thing, only Saunders is doing it cheaper.
And why pull out the old "Injury" cherry. 14 injured at one point, HOW MANY first team regulars. Thats a disguise of SOD inadequacies designed by himself to cover his weakness.

Irish Contingent wrote:Here we go again, round in circles, Tell me which "PROMOSING" prospects were signed from lower league for future gain.
Where did i "Laud" Mckay, i said i know why its happening, and can see why it just could work, dont think thats "Lauding" it.
Anyway, back track a little. How many "Short Term" players did SOD have at season start, how many "Loans" too. Why do you consider such a difference between SOD and Saunders doing same thing, only Saunders is doing it cheaper.
And why pull out the old "Injury" cherry. 14 injured at one point, HOW MANY first team regulars. Thats a disguise of SOD inadequacies designed by himself to cover his weakness.

It's you who is going round in circles, we have signed a few lower league players for future gain, and by gain i dont just mean selling them on, future gain by the promosing prospects performing for us and playing a big part in our climb up the leagues. Then there is the prospects we currently have (Bennett, Baxendale) Both seen as bright young prospects who (moreso next season) will only get better, one was free, the other a pretty small fee for what we'd get for him if he realises his potential. Plus i'v already mentioned how succesful it has been for other clubs, can you tell me when as the McKay plan ever worked for a club?

Keegan, Barnes, Naylor and Radford I THINK, we're the only players signed by SO'D in the summer on contracts less than a year. Dont know exactly how many loans he signed BEFORE the first game against Brighton only one, Mason was in the matchday squad first game, obviously Parkin and Lalkovic we're signed as replacements for Sharp, Mason and Hayter after they we're injured.

Ok you might not be 'lauding' him but your certainly saying that his way is the ONLY way, im just highlighting that it isn't the case at all.

I'd say quite a few of the 14 injured we're what you could consider the first team regulars, infact Oster was about the only one who went the season unscathed. For a squad like ours, it doesnt take many injuries to seriously affect us. At one point John Ryan was trying to get a game called off it was that bad.

John Ryan has been fantastic with the decisions he's made while he's been at the club, this time though, i feel he's got it wrong. I just hope that when/if the plan fails and we get relegated that it doesn't have a much bigger and disastrous affect on our club.

Look, these lower league players, were the majority not signed from clubs of equal stature ( at the time ), to DRFC.
Heffernan, Roberts,McIndoe, Blundell, Wellans all were.

So, the numbers of short term contracts and loans were very similar, the only difference is Willy McKay, which says more about your mindset than your reasoning.

How many Injuries has Dean had to contend with, wasnt it at one point a higher number than SOD.

Yes, i do believe in light of FL legislation the way DRFC are going is the only way the club could go.

Some 30% of championship clubs are currently spending more than 100% of takings on salaries alone, that is not sustainable, nor is your notion of buying from lower leagues and selling at a profit, for all the reasons i have stated.

Irish Contingent wrote:Look, these lower league players, were the majority not signed from clubs of equal stature ( at the time ), to DRFC.
Heffernan, Roberts,McIndoe, Blundell, Wellans all were.

So, the numbers of short term contracts and loans were very similar, the only difference is Willy McKay, which says more about your mindset than your reasoning.

How many Injuries has Dean had to contend with, wasnt it at one point a higher number than SOD.

Yes, i do believe in light of FL legislation the way DRFC are going is the only way the club could go.

Some 30% of championship clubs are currently spending more than 100% of takings on salaries alone, that is not sustainable, nor is your notion of buying from lower leagues and selling at a profit, for all the reasons i have stated.

Yes they were, although Wellens and Roberts we're out of contract at the time i think. Heffernan wasn't getting games in a team in the same league as us.

No that isn't the only difference at all. SO'D's whole plan wasn't to rely on short term players, McKays plan is. It's short-termism, that cant possibly work. Since Saunders arrived we've had a high turnover of players in such a short space of time, yet find ourselves still bottom of the league, with bigger named players too! Is that due to Saunders lack of Managerial ability and inexperience or is the plan simply not working? I'd say its a mixture of both.

There is only one person who has nothing to lose on this and that is McKay.

All the clubs in league 1 will be in the same boat as us next season, so lets see just exactly how many go down the same route that we have, i think you'll find it'll be none!

As i said, its not just about making a profit on these players, if they perform well on the pitch then we'll have hopefully profited with success. Tell me, if we released coppinger today would you say we've lost on him?

Look, let me put this as simply as i can.
If DRFC charged EVERYONE ( No Concessions, No Special offers, No Kids prices ) an across the board £25 and the attendance for every game was 12K, the club would take in 6.9 million, That alone is 1.1 million below Salary level for everyone at DRFC.
That would be the amount the club would be allowed to use next season if as i say 12K of FULL paying supporters watched DRFC.
Now we both agree that 12K is more than DRFC can dream of getting through the gates, and approx 5K are season ticket holders, so wont pay anywhere near £25 per match.
JR on his own cant be expected to fund the shortfall, even when the big money men were on the Board it was costing each of them 1.5 million, so something needed to happen, especially as the manager wasnt up to the task of keeping DRFC in the championship.
What options were there. only 2 as i can see. 1. pay off most of the existing players ( fine..... say 12 players, each on 3K a week....so thats thick end of 2 million gone). Then recruit from lower leagues ( only problem is transfer window is shut..... so only options are "LOANS".
Now, DRFC can get as many as 5 for match day squad, each loan costs money ( do you know how much we paid for services of Lalcovic and Co. .. well let me hint at a figure.....more than anyones salary currently at DRFC ...... THATS EACH).

The "Solution" was the McKay plan, get them in short term for next to nothing in comparison to the "Loan" players we had.

Now you dont agree with it, but surely you cant be so silly as to not see DRFCwere unable to go any other way.

I still think it will work, even after todays result. DRFC were the best team for 75% of that game.

Oh and the question you posed about Copps. Yes is the answer.

Alot of our players contracts are up at the end of the season as far as i can see so we wont have to pay their contracts up.

Yes, i must be silly, and so must all the other clubs in the football league who also dont use the McKay way!

We could be the best team for 75% of every game for all i care, it means nothing if after that 90 minutes you've conceded more than you've scored.

I had a feeling you'd answer that question as you did. Why would we have made a loss on him? We rejected what 300k(?) for him in the summer? He's obviously much more than that to us if we can turn that down. Not bad for a player who cost us only 30k.