Director Steps Down

Filo wrote:


The thing that is undermining our club is people posting things they say are fact, telling us all that he`s told the clique in private and then members of the clique coming on and telling us it`s all true, without actually telling anyone anything, if you really wanted our club to prosper then all you ITK`s on Skellow supposed knowledge, including Skellow should come clean and put it out in the open for the rest of the fan base to make an informed decision, Chinese whispers are n`t being helpful at all

I have to say that I think that there are some good points here. I see that Skellow believes that he is taking the higher ground, in that he (and his band of merry men) are in the know on what is happening, or has happened, to our club. This ‘information’ is ceremoniously flagged up whenever there is an argument or point of contention amongst other mere mortals, who have not been afforded the wisdom and inclusiveness that his ‘circle’ enjoy. However, I have to say that Filo also has a valid point in that if this ‘insider’ knowledge is of such consequence, it should be aired to all fans, so that its’ validity and worth can be addressed by the whole fan base and not just a specially selected few. The trouble with not airing these ‘facts’ is that they remain as unsubstantiated gossip or hearsay…………I think Winston Churchill once said “Men will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most will pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened”. If you indeed know the 'inside' story Skellow, I say “Publish and be Damned”…………………….

Remember - the truth is more important than the facts.

SPROTYROVER wrote:

Can someone (as he is off fishin) explain what Skellow means by this, amIi right to assume that the directors have to contribute to the running of the club at one of two levels depending on their share ownership?

The gist is that , in other words 2 tier Directorship. You haven't got an invite or the money for level 1 or 2 then it seems you will/are no longer welcome. As it was explained to me you are in effect buying a Directorship and I presume that was one of the reasons that our Board has shrunk to unhealthy levels.
A 2 tier Board room organisation can't be healthy or maybe it can ? How about voting rights, financial investigations from non-interested Directors would the former situation affect the transparency of the latter......I would think so if this is indeed the case and I haven't seen anything to formally suggest that this is the case in the first place.
There are many that argue that it isn't our money, we don't own it , our money to invest etc etc all very true but it is OUR club of choice of regardless of who is currently pulling the strings and anything that may affect it's future is or should be in OUR interest. I am sick of some folk on this and particularly other fora who state we don't have any say............THEY ARE WRONG!!
Decisions taken today that may affect the current/future well-being of our club is very much our interest given the past we have had to endure.

Filo wrote:


The way to find out is to join the clique, a condition though is you must back up every word, even if you have no evidence to do so, apart from a pm from one of the clique

There isn't a ''clique'' only a group of mates that he would rather share the truth with rather than be derided as is usually the case. I would prefer that he addressed his questions to those that could answer them or be prepared to answer them directly than the current situation but the hidden derision in your posts shows that he would never be listened to.
He would merely get the usual ''JR will walk away and we will be destroyed'' response that anyone who dares to challenge the decisions of JR and the Board usually get.
Some of what he may/may not know might be highly damaging to individuals or the club itself would you have him publish all of that ?

hoolahoop wrote:

would you have him publish all of that ?

I, for one would welcome it. I’d rather hear the truth, however painful, than the limited, misleading and often vague rhetoric that has often been spouted by the club. I think Gavin Baldwin recognises this and I think that (maybe) we are now addressing some of the issues - although I fear we are just scraping the surface.

Some of what he may/may not know might be highly damaging to individuals or the club itself would you have him publish all of that ?

Yes, without doubt, how many times have the club been criticised for being secretive, and here we have fans being secretive, as far as individuals are concerned, no individual is bigger than the club, the individual concerned who apparently gave Skellow this inside information should keep his trap shut if he did n`t want any of it to get out, or maybe he wanted Skellow to reveal all? Either way posting on a fans forum continually implying that they know things without revealing anything is not helping at all, all it does do to us as a body of fans is create wider divisions because any facts are only available to the chosen few! The VSC is there to essentially protect the club from dodgy folk (Richardson), but I`ll have a guess that Skellow has not approached any VSC Director with his concerns so that they can investigate further and try and establish if there is any truth there!

Like I said Chinese Whispers are unhelpful!

I think you will find that Skellow has challenged the VSC Chairman to search out exactly what is happening on many many occasions both on here and the VSC.
As for me I've got to know very little I'm sure but on each and every occasion it has been correct and usually contrary to what we hear coming out of the club and that info has been supplied months/weeks before.
Personally I can't say it as it is hearsay at the time when the info is supplied, without proof I certainly wouldn't want a court case coming my way!!

Well im in a lovely place called foy in a cottage on the banks of the river Wye getting ready for the first nights fishing on a buddy's ipad and have read this with interest.
Filo i have on numerous occasions asked people to question the club more on certain things but everytime my comments get batted back to me and i am told i am wrong (even from board members of the VSC), so why should i bother when the majority are happy to take in everything they are told by the club? Forinstance SM said publically recently that all loans had been converted into shares and written off. I challenged him on this and asked him if this was told to him in an official capacity or not by the club and he has avoided answering that question, why? You see things like that make me not bother.
As for the legitimacy of things i know, i have been around and involved with football my entire life through family and friends from grass roots level right upto the professional game, from fans through to members of boards right upto the FA. An immediate family member of mine was in the royal box and subject to the finest hospitality in the game at the recent England v Ukraine match as a guest of Lancaster Gate (lucky git!!!). I don't just know people at the Rovers, i know people involved with numerous clubs.
As for the tiers at the club, this actually came from a board member and the final nail in the coffin for at least one that resigned, on top of other things.
Do i worry about the club? Well yes and no. JR & Gavin have what is best for the club at heart, it's the KM2 i don't trust at all which was galvanised even more by events over the last 12 months.
Believe me if i EVER found something that could put the club in danger then i would be shouting the details for everyone to hear. What i want people to do is take of the rose tinted spectacles and stop believeing everything you are spoon fed and question things more because if people accept everything they are told then people at the club can do what they want, whether it's in the best interest of the club or not.
I hope that clears some things up for you because at the end of the day we all love this club and want what is best for it, i guess people just show it in different ways.

p.s. There are no cliques on here, just a few people i have got to trust over time that's all that i can air my grievences with on things i am told in private.

Thanks Skellow, I hope that straightens out some of the questions asked earlier by certain supporters.
The mission here is to challenge not destroy, to let others know that their actions are being monitored and if necessary will be challenged.

Well seeing as the accusations about disappearing are about me then I suppose I'm entitled to respond!

I didn't disappear, I just got fed up of giving you the answers only for you SR to carry on insisting you know something without ever providing any proof, and that's what I said to you at the time.

My evidence came from a direct conversation with Gavin, who is a Director by the way (just to let you know!) and I put that very question to him! TB and JR also gave that answer at the forum for the future when they said the club had no debt. Read that again... No Debt!

That's the question I asked Gavin and the answer he gave was that all the loans had been converted to share capital. You see, I haven't disappeared, I just don't have the time to come on here very often.

Furthermore it was JR's intention to run the board down for along time, he has been telling us that for the last few years, and that's what they've done. They still have a board, but in effect they have owners meetings now rather than board meetings, there's nothing wrong with that, just more common sense.


PS.... I was in the Royal Box for the recent Eng v Ukraine match, its not that important.

hoolahoop wrote:I think you will find that Skellow has challenged the VSC Chairman to search out exactly what is happening on many many occasions both on here and the VSC.
As for me I've got to know very little I'm sure but on each and every occasion it has been correct and usually contrary to what we hear coming out of the club and that info has been supplied months/weeks before.
Personally I can't say it as it is hearsay at the time when the info is supplied, without proof I certainly wouldn't want a court case coming my way!!

No he hasn't Hoola, what he's done is just keep telling me I'm wrong, there's a difference.

I sat in many meetings, wrote long essays to local MP's and attended labour party meetings for months on end when the stadium issue was going through just to make sure that the KM2 or JR for that matter had the right intentions. I didn't want to see asset stripping or anything of the sort taking place. And there was only me doing this, nobody else bothered to even question the council or anyone involved.

And what did Skellow do? He criticised me for not asking, according to him, the right questions! Jeez I despair!

Can't you two just meet up in person to compare willy sizes?

Ah so it's official from the club, thats all i asked for, thank you for your answer.

p.s. We're you treated to the best hospitality, top accomodation in London and chauffeur driven from Donny to london and back courtesy of the FA too?

SkellowRover wrote:Ah so it's official from the club, thats all i asked for, thank you for your answer.

p.s. We're you treated to the best hospitality, top accomodation in London and chauffeur driven from Donny to london and back courtesy of the FA too?

I`m not sure why you have to have a dig at him for, it`s not the first poster that you`ve made snidey remarks to when the answer you get does n`t fit the answer you want to hear. He`s answered your question, why the bitching?

SkellowRover wrote:Ah so it's official from the club, thats all i asked for, thank you for your answer.

p.s. We're you treated to the best hospitality, top accomodation in London and chauffeur driven from Donny to london and back courtesy of the FA too?

Yes, apart from the chauffeur and the accommodation. I was already in the south of England on business so didn't need either of them.

Now are we all sure that the Board can operate well without the checks and balances that experienced non-executive directors can bring to the table ?
It is well known that all 3 owners spend only a spend part of the working year in this country (JR and TB usually on multitudinous holidays a year)
Are we saying that all 3 have become so engrossed in the day to day running of the club all of a sudden or do we really only have one man at the rudder i.e Gavin Baldwin (newly appointed director) if so it doesn't surprise me that things didn't happen quickly enough both pre and early season to get a team together.
It appears to me that the transfer of power has merely passed from one man to the other.........albeit he seems far more capable than the previous 2 incumbents !
Why would you want to ''trim'' the board down to merely 3 (mainly absentee) owners and just one Chief Exec. ? I agree there did seem to be far too many directors on the Board but this seems to me far riskier irrespective of what the previous dynamics were in the Boardroom. 1 slight disagreement between any 2 of them and we're in a mess .

Silent Majority wrote:

Yes, apart from the chauffeur and the accommodation. I was already in the south of England on business so didn't need either of them.

Did you bring any discarded butties back with you , you know lobster et al ?

Filo wrote:



I`m not sure why you have to have a dig at him for, it`s not the first poster that you`ve made snidey remarks to when the answer you get does n`t fit the answer you want to hear. He`s answered your question, why the bitching?

Hang on a sec who said the answer isn't what i wanted to hear? Can you read my mind? I wanted a truthfull answer to pass on to an ex director of the club that is a friend of mine if that's ok with you Filo?

And who's having a dig? SM said he was in the royal box and it's nothing special so i asked him what hospitality he received, but i guess you never read that.

Who were you a guest of SM as only vice presidents are entitled to accomodation and travel? Unless you are a guest of the FA itself for a reason.

SkellowRover wrote:Who were you a guest of SM as only vice presidents are entitled to accomodation and travel? Unless you are a guest of the FA itself for a reason.

Come on SM ''spill' you're obviously working on something big here. Incidentally I didn't read the response from Skellow re. hospitality in the same way as Filo , did you in it's context ?
There is far too much sabre rattling on here than is healthy.

hoolahoop wrote:

Come on SM ''spill' you're obviously working on something big here. Incidentally I didn't read the response from Skellow re. hospitality in the same way as Filo , did you in it's context ?
There is far too much sabre rattling on here than is healthy.

That I agree with.

I think the thing I am a bit unsure with is Board meetings being basically replaced with Owners meetings, I'm not sure I like that, and with all the due diligence ( for want of a better expression) that SM has put in I'm still not sure.
Perhaps its just the title "Owners Meetings" I don't like

hoolahoop wrote:

Come on SM ''spill' you're obviously working on something big here. Incidentally I didn't read the response from Skellow re. hospitality in the same way as Filo , did you in it's context ?
There is far too much sabre rattling on here than is healthy.

A couple of points to answer, so I'll deal with this one first.

I've been working with the FA for the last 10 years or so, that together with the Home Office and ACPO enables us to achieve all kinds of things surrounding England fans and the national team. If anybody wants more detail I'm happy to share over a beer or two!! Furthermore I was scheduled to have a chat with the Chair of the SGSA (Sports Ground Safety Authority) over some initiatives following on from the Olympics and if I needed another reason to be there the FSF do have a seat on the FA Council.

As for the more detailed response with a view to the board being slimmed down then I suggest you look up the post on the VSC that dealt with all of this some weeks ago. In essence we don't need a board apart from the compliance of certain regulatory functions. The 3 main owners of the club felt they could be more direct, efficient, and responsive if they worked together more closely. I hear what you say about checks and balances but look at it this way, how would you feel if you have to pick up the bill at the end of the season, which last season ran into millions, when you realise that decisions are being made at board meetings by people with little or no financial risk when making those decisions? And that was the problem last season, when decisions were made by a quarom on the board that committed other people to spend millions.

Not a healthy situation and I personally would have withdrawn my services and my money if certain individuals were flexing their right to make decisions which didn't cost them anything but cost me a lot! Does this story remind you of anything? TB and DW have both said they don't mind filling the financial gap so long as they feel they have some control. Focussing on how many board members we have obscures the real reasons things went wrong and explains how things are now going right. I could go on but no doubt it will only fuel the debate. I'm always happy to discuss over a beer though!

hoolahoop wrote:

Come on SM ''spill' you're obviously working on something big here. Incidentally I didn't read the response from Skellow re. hospitality in the same way as Filo , did you in it's context ?
There is far too much sabre rattling on here than is healthy.

Lol! It`s OK for SR and his pm buddies to chuckle amongst themselves over something SR claims to know, and then knock any one that dares to ask what is so sinister about what SR "knows", hiding behind the "I`m not prepared to compromise my source" line, but when you think that SM knows something you want him to go public, you know the protocol on here hoola, pm`s and Chinese whispers amongst the select few (clique), not public announcements!



For the record, I took SM`s reference to the Royal Box and the fact that it`s not important as a tongue in cheek comment to SR claiming to be friends with an ex director, and seeing how he`s an ex director it`s not important. I may be wrong, but that`s how I read it

And that's how I meant it as well. I was pointing out that just because somebody gets an invite to Club Wembley and then a seat in the Royal Box it doesn't mean much, especially if I can do it too!

Silent Majority wrote:And that's how I meant it as well. I was pointing out that just because somebody gets an invite to Club Wembley and then a seat in the Royal Box it doesn't mean much, especially if I can do it too!

Who said club wembley? that is hospitality anyone can buy.

Didn't think club wembley is used as a guest of a member of the main board of the FA with top hotel accomodation and chauffeur driven car all over the place and hospitality in the FA suite with all the bigwigs that run the game.

Filo wrote:


Lol! It`s OK for SR and his pm buddies to chuckle amongst themselves over something SR claims to know, and then knock any one that dares to ask what is so sinister about what SR "knows", hiding behind the "I`m not prepared to compromise my source" line, but when you think that SM knows something you want him to go public, you know the protocol on here hoola, pm`s and Chinese whispers amongst the select few (clique), not public announcements!



For the record, I took SM`s reference to the Royal Box and the fact that it`s not important as a tongue in cheek comment to SR claiming to be friends with an ex director, and seeing how he`s an ex director it`s not important. I may be wrong, but that`s how I read it

I've mentioned lots of things publically in the past, but i usually get shot down and told i'm wrong only for them to happen at a later date. I've also mentioned things on here and the VSC that still haven't happened, but they will. You believe what you want Filo because i couldn't really give a toss and if you doubt me i don't care but a number of people know i've been spot on with too many things to talk or post bollocks.

By the way i know more people then one ex director of the club i actually knew 2 ex directors for a start as well as other people at the club, i only mentioned an ex director as i just wanted clarification as to whether the loan statement SM said was an official club statement as it's conflicting with what he was telling me recently, but hey lets believe everything were told mucker